Inside Kung-Fu Magazine
September, 2004
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What do you think martial artists can gain through the study of this martial art? What do you think this means for western martial artists and their students?

Martial arts can stand to learn a true state of self-reliance and self-sufficiency, to a point that one's learning becomes so full that the concern for qi cultivation is transcended. Within the ba gua quan methodology is a distillation of the most essential elements of martial arts as a complete system of life practice. The ultimate attainment is a direct experience of inner outer unity in handling all of life's affairs. Once you feel the impulse arising from inside the organs, and how it is effortlessly connected with body mechanics through the five elements and eight palms, there is no going back to externalized strength. Thus in general this discipline can help to elevate the standard of martial arts with the highest potentials human beings are capable of. That foremost includes the natural graduation to service for community, the basis of a spiritual life, as an expression of superior scholar-warriorship attainment.

The benefits to western martial artists and their students can be great. It may help give martial arts a chance to be restored to the respectable position in society that it once was in Asia. It is because of a narrowing of scope that it is presently relegated to a special interest or hobby today. In fact, martial arts represents among the highest level of integration possible by humans.

Would you go so far as to make a comparison of the effectiveness of your Ba Gua Quan and what is commonly known as Ba Gua Zhang?

We need to define “effectiveness.” In fighting, I feel individual talent is a bigger factor than any system, regardless of the system one practices. For health, there are also many individual factors such as hereditary and social background that play significant roles. Regarding the difference between ba gua quan and what is commonly known as ba gua zhang, I feel ba gua quan, with the attention paid to separating out the body parts, enables one to gain more self-awareness, and ultimately to be able to change and deal with the stresses of life very effectively.

Do you think different ‘schools' (styles of the same method) are important?

I think every school has something valuable to offer; assuming that each most likely embodies at least some memory of the essential system. Studying them can bring us more clarity about what the original possibly looked like.

The challenge for all practitioners from lineage holder to student, in this respect, is to transcend the form of one's practice. I do not know what Yin Fu learned from Dong Haichuan. There is no proof whether it was Dong Haichuan or Yin Fu who brought in the Lohan aspect to ba gua. Gong Baozai himself told me that ba gua quan is only a li, principle. So I don't really know what the original system was. What we do know for certain, however, is that the system Gong Baozai received is so extraordinary and all encompassing of the essence of philosophy, medicine, mysticism, martial arts from ancient Chinese civilization, that it seems impossible one person could have created it. It's simply too vast in scope—for instance, the 64 posture pao chui “cannon fist” form, and the reason it is done on the post-heaven diagram, each trigram representing one of the eight internal organs and body regions, with change between them based on the five element diagram overlaid on top of the eight trigram template—this was likely the product of generations of collective research. The only place it could have been developed, I feel, was in ancient temples.

What do you think is the goal of Ba Gua training?

To become a complete well rounded human being, equipped with the physical prowess, intelligence, wisdom and abilities, to deal with the world without fear, anger or prejudice, and if one is special, to contribute revolutionary advances.

Do you feel that you still have further to go in your studies?

Absolutely! From twenty-four years with him, Gong Baozai prepared me in the fundamentals, the relationship between character and movement, the expression of internal energy to outward strength, all based on development of the intelligence, and how this is not restricted to martial arts but extends to all the relationships and endeavors of one's life. Now it is time for me to take it deeper in my body. The fact that I am in my forties has brought about another concern I didn't have when I was younger, which is health and longevity, and passing the right idea to the next generations. Overall, I would say I've reach 70% of my potential; there's a long way to go.

Dr. Guen, how would you sum up the changes in martial arts that you've seen over the years?

In the thirty years I've practiced, there has been a move away from pure tradition to more synthesis of different styles. I think this evolution is good. There is a part of me that is saddened by the fact that in spite of the greatness of orthodox traditions, they in some way need to be let go of. A good example is Chinese medicine. Acupuncture needs to establish as a profession in its own right, but at the same time must defer to more effective modalities of treatment where it is not strong. This is the current complementary medical view of integrative treatment for illness.

How has your personal martial art (kung fu) changed/developed over the years?

It has changed from restless, insecure, with the need to intimidate people and force my will on them, to more ease, acceptance, following and contentment. I feel I'm finally getting a handle on how to take care of my health and life. The after effects of fighting used to stay with me constantly, getting trapped as tension in my emotions and physical body. I have since learned the correct way to train and harness great powers without as much negative side-effects.

Martial arts are nowadays often referred to as a sport… would you agree with this definition?

I share the same view as Gong Baozai that there is a marked distinction between sport martial arts and orthodox martial arts. Martial arts can be used as a sport; I was a full contact competitor in my twenties; the experience was invaluable. But the sport mentality is limited. As a life practice, I do not advocate the sport mentality. Gong Baozai taught that authentic martial arts absolutely cannot be used to compete, because the original techniques and philosophy are designed for life and death survival.

What general advice would you have for the martial artist?

To channel the warrior force inward and upward for development of the higher intelligence, in addition to outward and downward. Open the body and release repressed anger and fear, nourish the brain and open the mind. Use the powers one garners to heal one's relationships and seek deeper insight into life. The original temple standard of being a master meant far more than being a proficient technician or healer.

Who would you like to have trained with that you have not (dead or alive)?

In ba gua quan, Gong Baotian, Yin Fu and Dong Haichuan, of course. In tai chi chuan, Yang Shouzhong and his family predecessors. Any master of complete authentic systems.

What would you say to someone who is interested in starting to learn martial arts?

Look for a teacher who has definite martial art (fighting) skill, but who also fully embodies the principles of an authentic path. Quality teacher and method are required to teach you how to move the organs. If you can find the connection between the internal organs and external movement, then everything you do is in harmony with your higher wisdom; no matter what style you do, your practice will be correct.

What is it that keeps you motivated after all these years?

What motivates me these days is the feeling I get from practice, when all parts are operating together at once, this enables me to figure out ways to use the ba gua quan knowledge to heal my body and solve problems that come up in daily life. Another motivation is having the opportunity as a teacher to guide others on the path to fulfillment, knowing these strides are being taken to improve the future.

Do you think it is necessary to engage in free-fighting to achieve well ?

By all means. free fighting is essential to know martial arts. However, the losses are more important than victories. Street skills are important as well; where we don't have experience, we hold unconscious fear. At the same time, one shouldn't go out looking for trouble. I'd suggest that people allow the natural events and relationships of one's life to create one's lessons. That should be enough. This speaks of a core revelation of what Gong Baozai taught, that you cannot go out toward knowledge, but best let the opportunity for knowledge to come to you.

I feel the most important attribute for a fighter depends on their starting disposition. If you are of a kind disposition you must lose fear of hurting people. If you like to hurt people, you must acquire the capacity to hold back and feel compassion. If you are naturally crafty in personality, you must also master straight line force. If you are naturally straightforward and direct, you must learn how to be flexible and changeable.

What is-was your philosophical basis for your martial arts training?

For self-defense and self-cultivation: Chinese medicine and the philosophy of change. For community and service: knowledge that comes from study of the religions and spiritual practices of the world. Given the modern age, the traditional Chinese worldview alone is too narrow and limiting for me as a complete life path.       (read more...)